In pursuit of the best overall B&W centre channel speaker
If you own a Bowers & Wilkins 6 series home theatre system, you might have struggled to find the perfect centre channel speaker, thats perhaps not as large & as pricy as the 3-way HTM61.
You might want a HTM61, but in the size dimensions of the HTM62 so that it doesnt look like you have a suitcase sitting under your TV.
Firstly, if you can afford it & have the space for it, the HTM61 is definitely the best of the lot.
Please have a read of my comparison between HTM61 the 3-way giant &, everybody else, here.Its the only true 3-way centre channel speaker & in my experience, 3 way speakers have always impressed me over their 2 & 2.5 way counterparts.
If not HTM61, then read on...
I started with an LCR 60 S3, downgraded to a CC 6 S2, further downgraded to a LCR3, & then upgraded to a HTM62.
My current setup is:
Bowers and Wilkins 683 floor stander fronts
Bowers & Wilkins HTM 62 centre channel
B & W LM1 rear surrounds
B&W ASW608 8" sub woofer
Marantz SR-6004 7.1 ch Receiver (110W RMS per ch)
My recommendations (if you dont want to read the whole article):
Best overall value:
B&W CC6 S2
Most versatile performance:
B&W LCR60 S3
Best movie dialogues (you dont have to strain to hear every word):
B&W LCR3
Best for high quality music:
B&W HTM62
Ok, details on each speaker...
Again, if you have the money & the space, (& the wife approval to place a behemoth under your TV), then please save yourself the hassle & go buy a HTM61.
For the rest of us mortal folk, read on.
HTM62:
The Good:
Excellent overall performance, the new speaker truly is worth it.The best timbre matching for the new 683 & related family speakers
Excellent detail in the mid bass & mid treble, very real sound
Best for hifi music audio
The Bad:
Not as open in the middle section of the vocalsThe same muddy vocal issue that plagues other 2-way B&W centers affects this one.
Excessive LF response
LCR60 S3:
The Good:
Very good open vocalsExcellent separation between different instruments & speech
A true all range speaker, that really can be a L C R
No dullness, provides a clean full sound
Worth trying out as centre if you have a CM series bookshelf configuration, & are on a budget
The Bad:
A tad bright at the top.Lacks mid bass.
The bass doesnt deliver good extension at the bottom.
Not the best timbre matching for 6 series floor standers.
Too big for what is not best use of that air volume.
CC6 S2:
The Good:
Very good timbre matching for 6 series floor standers.Decent bass extension at the bottom.
Vocals have a rich depth, the LF extension gives a clean sound in surround music.
Overall a neutral sound, a true centre channel speaker.
The Bad:
Tad muddy on the mid-range vocals.A bit too warm all over despite falling in the neutral category.
Bottom bass is not fast, everything booms for longer than you'd sometimes like.
LCR3:
The Good:
Very good sound for the small size & price.Timbre match almost any 6 series speaker, even the big floor-standers, which for the price is an awesome result!
Vocals are very clear & sharp compared to other cheap speakers, easy to use for movies.
The Bad:
Almost no real low end bass, vocals in hifi music sound a tad gutless.Not the most neutral sound, & a bit of dullness at the very top end.
Not a rich sounding speaker, but if you have 6 series bookshelfs, this is a great choice.
So there you have it, my little bit of experience with the B&W centres. Was it useful, please let me know your comments so we can make this article even better.
Which ones have you got/used? Im tempted to mix the mighty CM Centre 2 with the 683, anyone tried that yet? Sounds a tad silly, but I love crisp dialogue & I think the cmc2 will be an interesting upgrade... all in good time dear friends, all in good time! :)
Hello,
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for sharing your experience!
I am currently building my first 5.1, Just bought a B&W ASW600, looking for the 5.0 now, I have a tight budget so I'm looking for used!
Serge
Thanks Sergie, glad to know my post was useful. What amp/receiver have you got?
DeleteIf youre on a budget, & already got a subwoofer, can I recommend going for the old B&W 601 bookshelves. I recently tryed the 685 just after the 601 s2 & contrary to most opinions on the net, I personally felt the 601 S2 is a much better choice especially given that it is now significantly cheaper than a 685. I believe this is mainly because the driver in the 685 is 5 inches, & the old 601 driver was 6.5 inches. I think the bass extension & mid vocal is much more rich compared to the 685. If you get a chance to buy them used on eBay, I would expect them to sell around the US$200 used mark. I would go so far as to say that even if u can afford it, the 601 is the better speaker, but like any 2 way bookshelf its not perfect.
I have use the 601 s2 with my asw608 sub & was quite happy with the sound, just crossover at a slightly higher bass frequency of say 100Hz & you will get a good kick out of the setup. I think the ASW600 will be a very nice sub for you.
I have never tried it, please do let me know how you find it.
Another personal opinon is to buy a good amp, if you havnt already got one. An easy way to get an awesome amp for cheap is to sacrifise the hdmi connection & youll get some awesome sound, if youre not going to be watching too many blurays in full HD thatn HDMI isnt too important, & even in full hd you can buy a bluray player that has a 1080i over component out & still get good quality.
Good luck building your system & please do share with us your final config & how it sounds.
And Happy New Year :)
Thanks for your comment mate
Thanks for the comparison, just what I was looking for.
ReplyDeleteI have a set (4) of 601 S2's, a B&W sub (don't remember the model) but the CC6 S2 center gave up on me: the kids dented the tweeter and apparently it's very hard to find a replacement part.
When looking for that, I noticed some reviews that mention the CC6S2 as being a bit muddy and not great for voice, so I was looking maybe to replace it with another model.
Now because I don't have unlimited space (and WAF) I was thinking about the LCR60, too bad I can only find it used.
Now you say the cheaper LCR3 would be the best choice for movies, I might look into that one too (although I'm a bit sceptic to replace my CC6 by a lower-end model?).
Thanks again!
(and any futher suggestions welcome ofcourse).
Hi Jochen, nice to see this post helping fellow buyers.
DeleteIs the tweeter still operational? Because from what I understand, the outer metal dome (if its the silver tweeter) is not that important & only has theoretical implications on dispersion.
The local B&W service techie here infact told me not to worry about it when I enquired about a dent which was pulled out & slightly cracked the dome on the LCR3's silver tweeter.
So do confirm you really need to replace that speaker.
In my opinion, the LCR60 s3 is a pretty good buy even if its used. LCR3 though recommended, is from a movies standpoint. Is hifi audio or surround audio dvd a big part of your usage? Because in that case I too would be skeptic of the LCR3 because it wont deliver the bottom of the vocals, & these days dvd audio pumps a lot more than just vocals out a centre.
Saying that, the LCR3 did surprise me when a tiny speaker like that delivered rather well, & thats despite it not even having the same yellow kevlar drivers that the LCR60 or CC6 have.
In general, the 601 is a warm speaker, so Id think the muddiness of the CC6 would be emphasised.
LCR3 & LCR60 both have similar sharpness in midvocals, this might do the trick for you if you want a bit of that zing in the sound.
A final consideration is that the LCR60 is easier to sell compared to the LCR3, which is another reason why teh LCR3 is so cheap.
I hope that helps.
Happy Shopping :)
Great article. Thanks for the advice. I just bought a second hand CC6 S2 for £60 and paired it with my B&W685 fronts and ASW608 woofer and I am very pleased with the result. Dialogue is now much clearer and the sound has better overall width. Your analysis is still helping people many months after you posted it - great job.
ReplyDeleteThanks Craig thats great to hear, I am glad this article has actually been of use & that you are happy with the result. Please do come back & post your observations with your setup so I can include them in the main post. May I ask what surrounds you were using with your setup? I personally found that auto-calibration on amps works much better when similar speakers are used, thus improving the sound of all units in an HT setup. And by thw asound of your post, I think youve seen a similar benefit. Did you use an auto-calibratin system, what amp? Cheers
DeleteThanks for review of HTM61 and HTM62.
ReplyDeletei got 685B's,ASW608 and pioneer elite vsx-70. Plan is to build a 5.1 eventually. Based on your suggestions I will be targeting to get a HTM61 center speaker.
to start with will biamp-ing or bi-wiring make a significant difference with the B&W speakers in terms of sound quality?
Hi Prakash, youre welcome.
DeleteIn my personal experience, I bi-wired my 683s on a Marantz SR6004 receiver, & frankly I didnt see any difference in sound quality. The only slight benefit was I could play it a tad louder before the system would cut off from protection. And that point was still way more louder than I would ever use.
But Ive been told by many that bi-wiring does help with the right kind of dedicatedpower amp setup, thats something I still need to try. But I really doubt the 685s are worth bi-wiring, dont think it will make a difference.
The vsx 70 is well reviewed, but I doubt it will be signifacantly better with bi-wired 685s either.
None the less, if you do biwire & find it better,
please do let us know.
Cheers
Wow. Thanks for the very interesting review.
ReplyDeleteI have recently had to move my home theater setup into a smaller space. It is now set up in a 5.1 configuration instead of the previous 7.1.
That left me with two extra DM602S2 speakers available to upgrade the front left and right channels of my wife's living room 3.1 system, which we mainly use to watch TV with the occasional DVD or Blu Ray. I have been hoping to find a B&W center channel speaker to use with the 602's, but so far I have not found any locally. (I live in Alaska)
My wife would strongly prefer that we use a smaller sized speaker because of the configuration of her equipment rack. There's just not much room below the 50" plasma display. After reading your review, maybe I don't need to spend the extra money for a higher end speaker if I can find a good used LCR3 or CC6.
The current center channel is from a Yamaha surround sound speaker set. This was a decent set, I suppose, but in conjunction with the 602S2 left and right positions, the little Yamaha speaker is simply not cutting it.
Hello there thanks for your post. Ive never tried 602s but I agree with you, I think you should keep looking on eBay & the like to find a decent LCR3. Saying that, without a 5.1 in her room, do you reckon you will be putting the centre to much use? You might be potentially better off just using the 2ch setup. Your amp may have a good quality downmix mode & the dialogue might sound clear enough for occassional use. Please do let us know what you finally decide on & how you find it.
DeleteHi - Thanks for the review. Pretty new to surround but have enjoyed stereo music for years. Have just purchased a Yamaha RXV573 and have rigged it up to my CM2 fronts and DM303 rears. Both sets of speakers are probably 10 years old and have been attached to an old NAD C320 stereo amp and in the loft respectively. Am looking to add a centre (am currently running a phantom centre) and a sub (currently using an even older pioneer unit). B & W tell me that the HTM62 should match my CM2's as, although they are a level or two lower down the hierarchy, the advancements in technology over the years should level things out. What do you think? Have to say that so far the CM2's are sounding sweeter on the Yamaha than they ever did on the Nad! Any thoughts for a B&W sub that might complement my setup? Listening will be split about 60/40 in favour of music over video. Thanks again.
ReplyDeleteHi there, great to know the review has been helpful. I believe there are 2 different speakers sold as the CM2, correct me if Im wrong. But there were the old ones which didnt use kevlar cones & had something like a stand underneath the bookshelf, whereas the new ones are kevlar & very similar to CM1. Since youre using 303 as rears, Im assuming its the older CM2s you have. The only non kevlar B&W speaker Ive ever heard for now is the LCR3 centre, so I might not be giving you the best advice. Saying that, I dont personally feel the HTM62 is the best option. B&W probably have no choice but to recommned something from their current lineup, & so are trying to stick a 62 to you. I think the older LCR60 would be a better match for the CMs because I feel the CMs are basically a brighter design. Since you mention they sound better on the Yamaha 573, I get the impression that these speakers are fairly flat & the yamahas otherwise bright sound thus works well. Thats again my personal opinion that all yamaha amps like to make the top end a bit sharper than Id like, but with speakers that are softer, it can potentially complement nicely. What that means is you might actually be better off with a CC6, which is a warm speaker. So the Yammies extra treble will get soaked in nicely & might create a good timbre match.
DeleteSo to summarise, if you have kevlar, go with a used LCR60/600. If you have the older drivers, try the used CC60.
Sorry I may not be of much help here, but I hope my reasoning makes sense.
For a sub, I think the newer ones will work just as well as anything older. I would have recommend the ASW608 for music given its compact size, fast tight response, low price & excellent overall performance, but after reading a lot of complains with its amp heating & blowing up, Im starting to be weary of recommending it. Even mine used to heat up, though it didnt blow up.
Given the already mixed nature of your system, I think you might benefit going for a non B&W sub. Lots of people have said that better alternatives exist, with Velodyne & REL mainly, & I personally am keen on a Velo because of remote control, EQ presets, & auto calibration. The RELs though Im told are a far nicer sub for music, & the CM being a tight speaker, it might be a good match.
But Ive also seen older B&W 6 series subs sell for a good price, so it might be worth just buying one of them & seeing what YPAO does with it.
Hope that helps. Please do let me know how you go & what you finally buy, would be interesting to know.
Cheers
Thanks for your reply - really appreciated. It's the later 'kevlar' CM2's I have but, to be honest, I've never been completely happy with NAD/CM2 combination - a little short on bass. Linking them to the Yamaha and adding the, admittedly poor, sub has really made a difference as you might expect. The 303's also deliver more bass so things are balancing up OK at the moment (if you ignore the bust tweeter in one of the 303's!). I think I'll try and pick up a second hand LCR60 and see how I get on.Difficult for me to justify a new sub just yet but I'm sure I'll start looking for one as soon as the centre is sorted - I'll have that budget B&W setup yet!
DeleteThanks again.
Ah ok, so what sub have you currently tried them with? Did you use YPAO? In cases like these, one of the tricks that Ive found helps is setting the crossover in the amp slightly higher, say 160Hz, & then setting the crossover in the sub back down, say 100Hz - it allows you to do the equivalent of basically controlling the slope of the roll off, because the receiver will usually have a much broader one, & the sub will have a tigher cut off, see if that allows you to get the kind of bass you want. The 303 is a bigger cone the the CM2 right? I think you'll like a bit of midbass, a bit like me, I like midbass, just vibration isnt enough, youve got to hear it. Try playing around with the sub & also its position, contrary to current recommendations of placing subs in the between the front & centre speaker, I prefer the older version of putting it in a corner. Yes it makes the bass boomy & can sometimes induce sharp variances based on where you are sitting, but overall I like that kind of sound. You might find the bass ok out of your system once its optimised to deal with the weaknesses of your setup. Let me know if you like the LCR60. If you are on a budget, see if you can get the cheap little LCR6, Id say its lack of bass is synonymous to the CM2s & so once you wire the sub the way you like the CMs to sound, the LCR6 should fit in naturally at the same roll off. Again, this is just speculation, but I hope you get the sound you like. Happy Listening :)
DeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteRight now I have 2 604s1 with CC6s2. I still miss some open sound. So I started looking around and came across this site. Very nice info!
I am looking fora LCR600 instead of a HTM61. Most opinions I read say that the LCR600 is more open. Can u confirm this?
I was thinking of going maybe for a CMC centre 2 but there's a risk that the sound field is to much off compaired to the fronts, agree?
Greetz
Hi Daan, I would agree that for a 604 you might be better off finding a LCR600. In terms of openness, I dont think the LCR600 is more 'open' than the HTM61, I think its just got a brighter overall sound. The FST midrange in the HTM61 tends to sound better once you get to a certain volume. The CC6 is definitely a warm centre so with 604s you might be lacking the clarity. You could also try an LCR60. I think the CMC2 would be a great speaker but will probably cost u a lot, & there is the risk of it not timbre matching. I dont feel it will overpower your imaging so it might be worth it if you see yourself upgrading to CM fronts at some stage. I do agree that openness is a bit of an issue across the entire b&w 6 series lineup, & some poeple outright feel that the centres just arent as good as other brands. If you receiver has a ghost centre or phantom centre type setup where it routes the centre to the fronts equally, I would be tempted to try it because it could work very well. Rotate the 604s inward if you want a better sweetspot & feel the centre isnt clear, but if the sound stage isnt defined, then move them back straight & get a centre speaker. Try some combinations. If you can get the 61 cheap though, I think you will notice significant improvement over the cc6 none the less. I hope that was useful, sorry I couldnt be more specific in what you should do.
DeleteCheers
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletehi
ReplyDeletewhat about the HTM62 looking for something fit inbetween my 601s3
lcr60 or htm62
cheers
Hi there, good question :) I would highly recommend the HTM62 for the 601 S3 because I have found them be warm speakers with a clean bottom end, much like the 62. In theory, one would argue that the older drivers of the 601 should better timbre match the LCR, but it has been my experience across the LCR lineup that they are bright, whereas the 60x are warm, & this means pairing them with the new warmer HTM62 for once is actually better than matching with the older centres. Do let me know what you find better though. Mind you, if you focus only on HT & not on hifi, one could argue that the better dialogue clarity in the LCR could be advantageous at low volume. Also, the CC6 is a great speaker to match the 601s if you are on a budget & want a versatile speaker. Good luck.
DeleteHello FuzzyLogic,
ReplyDeleteI'm currently in the process of building my first HT set up, after purchasing a new 3D LG TV and a 3D Panasonic Blu Ray player.
My previous set up was an old CRT TV with the sound directed through a stereo amp, so this is going to be quite a big upgrade.
The speakers i have at the momoent are the B&W DM 602 s3 connected to a Nad 302 amp. Anyway i initially intend to only add a centre speaker and possibly a sub woofer, so would make it a 3.1 system.
I didn't have a clue which center speaker to get, so upon doing a Google search it seams that the best option is to match your speakers as close as possible.
This is how i came by your excellent report.
It seems that the LCR 60 S3 would be my best option, but as i'm on a budget, and also the size of this speaker would be a bit too big to accommodate, do you think i could get away with the CC6 S2 speaker?
I like to listen to music, CD and Vinyl, so do you know of an AV Receiver that would best match the B&W speakers, and be good for music aswell? I could possibly go up to £300 for this.
Finally the Sub, does it matter what make? Do i actually need one? Any good ones to recommend?
Thanks a lot for any information you can give me.
Hi there, thanks for your feedback, glad to know this post has been helpful.
DeleteYes the CC6 is very good for the 602, infact its probably a better match for the 602 than the LCR60 given youre mainly going to be into stereo music whilst the 3.1 setup persists.
There are a few ways to do this, & based on your personal preference & who you talk to, either option has its perks.
1) Buy a new med-high quality surround AV receiver & discard the NAD amp
2) Buy a med quality surround AV receiver with pre outs then plug your NAD amp to it & continue driving the speakers with it.
3) If your Bluray player has 5.1/7.1 analog out over RCA, there is no harm in using it for a start.
Sounds like you are on a budget, & since Im not in the business of selling anything, I often recommed practical options rather than buying the latest & greatest.
NADs have a good reputation, now given your amp is an older model, does it still work flawlessly, are you happy with its sound?
More often than not, a stereo amp will outperform mid level Surround AV receivers, especially if you dont buy in the same class.
If you wanted the same quality as that of NAD, I would point you to brands like Marantz & Harman Kardon - both pricier options than a Yamaha or Denon.
If youre on a budget, get a used Marantz SR5004/6004 & they are great. The HKs in that class are nice too.
So are the Yamahas over the 1000x series.
In theory, those that believe the NAD302 is superior, will want to do it by connecting it to the cheaper surroudn amp.
So lets say you went for a cheap yamaha or denon that had preouts & connected your NAD to drive the front speakers, that would work.
Its like using your Surround receiver as a pre-amp, except that HDMI preams cost the earth these days, so this is a cheap way to somewhat get the digital processing done.
Thing is, if you buy a very entry level surround receiver, you might be dissatisfied given youve enjoyed an NAD all these years.
Thus it pays to stick to buying decent HDMI capable surround receiver & driving the fronts, or else using the NADs from the preouts.
In theory, if the surround am is cheap then the preouts will nto be great either, but at that point its all theoretical differnce rather than practical difference.
If you cant find anything of that quality in your budget price class, dont hesitate to sacrifise HDMI for audio & go with an older but nice NAD/Rotel surroudn receiver which would have dolby/dts decoding but just no hdmi. They go for a lot cheaper now & they still sound great.
-- more in the next reply --
DeleteI tend to suggest the most practical options when people are on budgets.
Sure in theory HD master audio is the best, but trust me, most naked years wont know if its Master Audio over HDMI or DTS 5.1 over good old optical cable. Since youre only 3.1ch, the other 4 channels of the bluray wont matter anyway.
So you could easily buy a used Rotel /NAD from like 10 years ago which will have 5.1, & DTS & Dolby decoding over optical & the performance is actually really good.
That way you get the same signature sounds of those top brands, without the expense.
But, you loose hdmi audio.
Your TV will be connected via an hdmi plug & your bluray will be via the optical. Ensure your bluray player has optical out before you go down that track.
Just a recommendation though that get to 5.1 speakers asap, a lot of new bluray have a lot of content in the surround channels so you dont want to always be stuck in 3.1
Lastly, Audio processing via amps arent critical, yes its better quality most of the time, but not 'critical'. Good bluray players do a good job of it.
Many panasonics have RCA analogue outs & frankly the decoding isnt as bad as people want you to believe.
Many readers will disagree with me on this & insist that only a good amp should be trusted with decoding digital signals,
but in my experience, RCA out from the Bluray players arent so bad.
If on a budget, there is no harm in buying a second amp & running your centre through it. Plug your fronts from the bluray to the NAD.
Plug the centre to this other amp. Its not the 'recommend THX guideline' way of doing it obviously, but hey, it performs extremely well & gives you good control to set things up. The second channel of this amp can then be used as the rear back surround channel toward a 6.1 setup
Bluray 7.1 can downmix to 6.1 So what you do is the day you buy 3 more surround speakers, 2 of them will be driven as rear left/right, & third can be a back rear which can be the other channel of this amp that the centre plugs into.
Sorry it sounds more complex than it is, but it can be done. Those that have Pre-amps do exactly thins, albeit with a pream & not their bluray player :)
This ofcourse requires your bluray to give centre over RCA, & not all of them do so depends on the model, double check the connections at the back.
Lastly, remeber its ultimately personal prefernce on sound quality. Dont forget to go take a listen.
Also consider your upgrade strategy, if you plan to get better stuff, think about how to spend your budget.
Some dealers might let you take your 602s over & try it on a surround receiver. Dont hesitate to try it.
Hope it all made some sense. Please feel free to come back & ask any questions. And pleae do let me know what you end up buying :)
Happy listening. Enjoy!
Hello again,
DeleteWow! Thanks for your very in depth reply.
You've certainly given me a lot to think about.
Once I decide on the best way forward for me I'll let you know.
Thank you very much for taking the time to read and answer my questions.
Best regards.
No problem mate, always happy to assist. I hope that at the end of all that thinking you get the performance you like :) One thing Ill re-iterate is that dont wrry about buying used. Yes, if youre really outta luck the thing will fall apart, but with the kind of brands we're talking, things usually last ages. Good luck :)
DeleteHello Fuzzylogic, I really enjoyed your comments about matching speakers in a HT setup and I learned quite a lot. I would like to submit you following question: I have recently acquired a yamaha rx s600 receiver where I am very happy with. I use a 3.1 setup with 2 FPM4 (flat panel monitor) 1 LCR3 and a subwoofer ASW300. As you already mentioned for understanding movie vocals its a good match, but in my opinion the LCR3 gives another timbre than the FPM4 (perhaps because of the type of speaker (fibreglass instead of kevlar). Could you advise on a better match keeping in mind the clarity of the speech in movies is important to me but also the sound of the movie. I don't use the HT for listening to music (I have a separate Hifi installation for that). I was thinking on a LCR60s3, cc6 S2 or a HTM62. Your comments and advise would be very appreciated, because the guys from B&W couldn't help me any further, they just advised their actual HTM's(Guido from Ghent- Belgium)
ReplyDeleteHi Guido, thanks, great to know you enjoyed the post. I think I have heard the FPM4 before, but I cant recollect it for sure. From memmory, whatever speaker I heard, looked like it shared the same drivers as the FPM. I would thus say that the HTM62 is perhaps the best bet for you. But if you are on a budget, the CC6 should also cut it nicely. I remember these drivers as not having a very open middle but having a nice powerful sound, & the HTM62 is like that. The CC6 will not have as much top end clarity as the HTM62, but should do a good job for the price. I can see why you dont like the LCR3 with the FPM, because the LCR3 doesnt have as much low end as the FPM would, so it is a different timbre. If you get a chance, see if someone will let you audition the HTM62 on the same FPM4. I dont think the LCR60/600 would be quite the right fit for FPM. One of the benefits of buying these used centres though is that if you dont like it, they are relatively easy to sell off. So if you just cant get to audition it, start with the CC6 (cheapest option) & if you dont like it, move to the HTM62 (probably the best bet) & then if that fails try the LCR60 (unlikely but worth it if the others fail). Hope this was useful. Best of luck with your efforts. If you have any further questions, please feel free to ask. Happy Listening :)
DeleteHi Fuzzylogic, Thanks for your quick reply and your detailed answer. I will look into your advices and keep you posted on the results. Best regards, Guido
DeleteHello Fuzzylogic, I had the opportunity to compare some center speakers from B&W (the HTM62 and the CC6) and none of them did match the sound signature of the FPM4. Finally I got an answer from B&W itself and it seemed that only another FPM4 would match the other front speakers. A few days ago I could acquire a second hand FPM4 and indeed this one matches perfectly with my other front speakers. The stereo effect and the soundstage are now as they have to be and you can hear now the finest details in the movies together with clear vocals and speach. I hope that my experience can be interesting for the readers of the blog. In any case thanks for your assistance. Best regards, Guido
DeleteHi Guido thanks a lot for coming back & letting us know your findings. It is always good to know what didnt work so that other readers including myself can be more informed. I am glad you finally have the sound you like. It is good to know about the FPM, I will keep it in mind. I am a bit surprised though because the tweeter placement in the FPM is too far between drivers, thus would yeild in poor imaging when placed horizontally, but its good that its worked well. Good to know B&Wfinally advised you something different to the HTMs, instead of insisting you buy an HTM. The next question I guess is if you ever go for surrounds, is the FPM again the only option?? Also, did you try any other FPMs for the center or only the FPM4? Thanks again for sharing your experience. Cheers.
DeleteHi Fuzzylogic, I am afraid so that I will have to keep it by the FPM series. B&W advises to use the FPM4 or even the smaller FPM2 for surround. I have not tried another type FPM (5 or 6) because of a lack of place, so I cannot give an impression on that. I am pleased with my actual solution. Kind regards, Guido
ReplyDeleteI've old BW concept 90 (old CM series ) and i'd like to put a central for home cinema and multi channel music. I've to go to CMC ? or other associations are possible ?
ReplyDeleteHi mate, sorry Im not too sure about the old concept series speakers. But my rule of thumb is that when in doubt match the cone material. Paper for paper & Kevlar for Kevlar. Your old cones are gray in colour I gather? I would consider a LCR3, but it might be low on bass, then maybe a LCR60. If that fails, I suppose new CMC, but they are very expensive.
Deletehey hi. great artical. am lookfor center speaker for my dm603 s3. i was told that the lcr600 s3 is a match for my speakers but damm tthe speak os big. So i was looking for lc60 s3, but hard to find in the use market. but i just came across an cc6 s2 at a great price. What would you recormend for my speaker, i would be using it for 60% movies and 40% music.
ReplyDeleteHi Brian, Thanks. The LCR600 is an awesome speaker, I know its big but if you can squeeze it in, it'll be worth it. Here is my review for more details: http://mylatesttoy.blogspot.co.nz/2014/10/b-lcr-60-lcr-600-vs-htm61-htm62.html
DeleteIf movie is your main use & are not overly fussed, & are getting the CC6 for a cheap price, go for it. And don't discard the cheap little LCR3 which would be even cheaper, its awesome for movies as the dialogue is clear, though its gutless for hifi music bottom end, but otherwise I budget is an issue, its a nice speaker. I would say youll enjoy the CC6 overall for the price, but be aware that its a slightly muddy speaker & sometimes in movies you will want to increase its volume by +4 db so that the big floorstanders don't overpower it. Hope that helps. Cheers
HTM62 for $300
ReplyDeleteCC6 for 120
or LCR3 for 120
is the HTM worth the money ? (which is within my budget).
I don't have B&W fronts if that matters.
Oh, and I think it'll mostly be used for movies, I don't beleve in using the center for music
Hi mate, Thanks for your comment, now nearly a year ago, sorry I never got notified of it by the silly blog system! Youve probably made a decision by now. If only movies, CC6 & LCR3 would be good enough. If both same price, I would buy CC6 simply because the CC6 is a model up from the LCR3 so you are getting more value for money & more resale value. HTM is really only when hifi audio or really well mastered movies come into play (most are not in my opinion). If youre not on B&W, check out other brands too, timbre matching may be very different. Especially if you have "North American sounding" speakers (Paradigm, JBL, KEF, Polk etc) then definitely expect timbre to be off. And those brands are often cheaper, so do check it out..
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ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteI`ve bought a 686 S2 as fronts (used) and an ASW610 as a sub and looking for a HTM62 S2 centre,
Somebody offered me a HTM62 S1 and I`m wondering if I should stick to the S2 one?
I`d use it 50-50% for movie-music.
Thanks
Hi, Congrats, thats a great combo. If youve been offered a HTM62 S1 for a good price, I would say definitely go for it. The HTM 61 S2 is a true upgrade to the S1, but for the 62 in my opinion, more of a marketing thing just to get everything in line with the new look. But please see if you can have a listen as I have not tested the 62 S2 as extensively, & have never tested mixed s1 & s2 speakers from a timbre match perspective. I doubt it will change, because the 6 series lineup numbers have not changes & only the S version has been upgraded, should be easy to mix them. Good luck!
DeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteI have a pair of DM603 s3s with LCR60 S3 as center channel. I use an Onkyo TXNR626 as the receiver.
I am looking for a pair of surround speakers to go with these. I understand that the surround speakers are not as important as the front and center, and is looking forward to save space and cash.
Could you please recommend some good surround speakers for my setup. Do I need to prefer B&W bookshelves itself for the surround? Can BW M1MB's wall mounted do the job?
Hi, great combo. Whilst you are right about surrounds being less important, there are certain benefits in going for something like a dm600 s3 or similar, rather than the M1. THe M1, LM1, VM1 etc are all very capable in surround, as you will read in my other post. However, a used 600 will be cheaper than a new m1 & will outperform all the others. Also, with modern receivers, people of ten use auto calibration. This is where weak speakers become the weakest link & what happens is that the whole systems setup is compromised to match the smallest speakers.
DeleteI would also recommend B&W yes because you will see the benefit of timbre matching in hifi music applications. Also, B&W has a very warm tone, some spekaers very opposite. So if Byou try mixing 'American sound' with 'British sound' (just a broad generalisation here) you might find that those dont gel so well. All the best. Enjoy your sound.
Hi,
ReplyDeleteI recently purchased a used 685 s2 and looking to pair it with a center. I am on a budget and was wondering if the CC6 S2 would be good enough center for both movies & music. ?? I am not seeing any good deas for HTM62s.
This is the only blog out there that has some information on pairing center channels with the 6 series. Thank you for that.
Hi there, Thanks for your comment. I have not tested the 685 s2 extensively, but with the 685 S1, the CC6 was infact a great match! Id grab them if you were on a budget. The LCR600 is also another good centre if you can source it for cheaper. The LCR60 not so much. If you want a centre mainly for movies & not for music, the lower end CC3 is really cheap (if you can find it!) & it is pretty good for the price. Good luck, enjoy your hifi :)
DeleteHi, I just bought a pair of cm9 (used) that we are using as fronts. I am looking to buy a 686 for surrounds, but i don't know what center should i choose to match . There are 3 used centers in my country: LCR 60 S3 or LCR600 s3 or a HTM7. Unfortunately i can't audition either of them.Any thoughts would be helpful
ReplyDeleteHi, sorry for the delay replying, life has been busy. I would go with LCR600 S3 if I couldnt audition the HTM7. While the HTM7 could be a great speaker, I have never heard it but the LCR600 S3 is my favourite legact centre before the HTM61 came. Hope that helps..
DeleteHi, thanks for your great article.
ReplyDeleteI have had a 600 series system for many years and love it. DM603 S2 on the front, 601s on the back and a CC6 Centre. Yamaha DSP A1 driving it, with a Musucal Fidelity X-A1 driving the Mains. I have always felt the centre speaker to be a bit underwhelming and your article really helps me understand I need a HTM61 or stay with what I have. I assume by the age of your article you were originally reviewing the S1. Have you compared the HTM61 S1 vs the HTM61 S2? They look very different speakers.
Hi, sorry for the delay replying. Life is getting in the way of these interests :) You're right I have not tested HTM61 s2. I heard the HTM62 S2 & was happy to hear some improvement. I would think the HTM61 S2 is designed to close the gap to the CM line. However, the HTM 61 S1 had a large FST midrange which was awesome, & I suspect that the smaller drivers may cause that mellow sound to change. The new 685 S2 is a much better speaker than the 685 S1, same drivers as the HTM62 S2 I believe. Hope that helps..
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